Curse

reaper with no name · Jan 20, 2011, 01:22 AM // 01:22

If Anet is going to release an update to fix the triple mod weapons, it might as well just go ahead and do something about the unconditional weapons. The same reasoning applies to both. They offer (minor) unfair advantages over other types of weapons which players who do not have access to them cannot get. Unconditionals are far more rare than triple mods, but then again, triple mods aren't exactly common either, and rare is not the same as balanced.

Discuss.

Lord Mip · Jan 20, 2011, 02:13 AM // 02:13

Unconditionals? Triple mods? Did I miss something?

reaper with no name · Jan 20, 2011, 03:18 AM // 03:18

Back in the first days of the game, there were some weapons that dropped which had +xx% damage mods with no conditions to them. Today, they're incredibly rare because they don't drop any more, but being rare just means that only a few "elite" players get them, gaining a minor but nevertheless existent advantage over other players, which is thereby anathema to the game's theme of player equality.

Triple mod weapons are weapons that are only supposed to have two mods, but have three instead. They dropped in the Mausoleum, and Anet says that they're going to get rid of them in a future update.

Of course, ideally, wintergreen weapons should be subject to this as well. The question is, how to "fix" these weapons without diminishing their value (for wintergreen weapons, making peppermint weapons have the same properties would do it, since the skins on wintergreen weapons are unique; for unconditional weapons, they could be given some unique condition that no other weapon mod has that is nevertheless no better than standard inscriptions).

Essence Snow · Jan 20, 2011, 03:29 AM // 03:29

I think it would be hilarious! Like you mentioned...there is a reason to "fix" these. The only reasons to leave them are maybe laziness and they dont want to deal with a few ppl raging (which imo would be funny).

HawkofStorms · Jan 20, 2011, 03:37 AM // 03:37

Oh that will go over well.

The other triple weapon mods (and the times there have been buggy collectors and greens with weird stats), it was easy to track since all weapons from collectors are exactly the same, and the triple mod weapons all came from one location for a very limited time, which A.net could find via monitoring server side activity.
Unconditionals on the other hand are actually very difficult to keep track of as they could have resulted from any drop anywhere for a longer period of time (not to mention 6 years of being traded around). I don't think its possible for A.net to find them all. It fact, I believe that was the official explanation for why they didn't change them back when they retroactively changed that Sorrow's Furnace Green. They'd have to look around and delete the items one at a time via some sort of reporting system. And that wouldn't really work, because you'd never find all of them (and all it would do would be to make the unconditionals that aren't found even more valuable).

Kunder · Jan 20, 2011, 04:08 AM // 04:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

Oh that will go over well.

The other triple weapon mods (and the times there have been buggy collectors and greens with weird stats), it was easy to track since all weapons from collectors are exactly the same, and the triple mod weapons all came from one location for a very limited time, which A.net could find via monitoring server side activity.
Unconditionals on the other hand are actually very difficult to keep track of as they could have resulted from any drop anywhere for a longer period of time (not to mention 6 years of being traded around). I don't think its possible for A.net to find them all. It fact, I believe that was the official explanation for why they didn't change them back when they retroactively changed that Sorrow's Furnace Green. They'd have to look around and delete the items one at a time via some sort of reporting system. And that wouldn't really work, because you'd never find all of them (and all it would do would be to make the unconditionals that aren't found even more valuable).

Ludacris. Its information sitting on a hard drive somewhere. You can change that as you want. I can't imagine any situation in which it is any different from a simple search and replace option. Granted it might be a bit harder since you need to check more weapons but there is no reason it couldn't be done if you wanted to. Most likely Anet simply doesn't care.

Why? · Jan 20, 2011, 04:59 AM // 04:59

there is a huge difference between fixing something that is broken, and fixing a supposed problem with the unconditional weapons. I mean honestly there is a good chance none of the surviving unconditionals are actually ever used in the game any more, and there is a huge possibility that most of them have already been deleted by Anet when they wiped out all the cheaters.

Seriously if you think those weapons give someone any real advantage, you need to rethink this. The ones that have survived are so absurdly rare and espensive that they are passed between a handful of elite wealthy players, and odds are those that didn't cheat and get banned don't play anymore anyways.

reaper with no name · Jan 20, 2011, 06:10 AM // 06:10

If none of these weapons are still in existence, then removing them would be a simple matter that harms no one.

If they are still in existence, they offer an unfair advantage and should be removed (or at the very least, changed in such a way so that they are no longer mechanically superior and are instead nothing more than a prestige item).

*lemming* · Jan 20, 2011, 06:50 AM // 06:50

It's only an unfair advantage if it's in use.

The Baphomet · Jan 20, 2011, 07:51 AM // 07:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

It's only an unfair advantage if it's in use.

People just QQ about exclusive things that they don't have themselves. Unconditionals don't really increase DPS. It isn't very often that a warrior or ranger is below half health if the team isn't going to wipe anyway. Possible troll?

tl;dr whiners.

KamikazeChicken · Jan 20, 2011, 07:52 AM // 07:52

If Anet had the ability to remove the unconditionals, they would have years ago. I'm still not entirely convinced they are even able to fix the trip mod drops...

Artaban · Jan 20, 2011, 11:11 AM // 11:11

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/u...t10440017.html

here's thread where some tried to find out all the unconditional weaps ingame.

might enlighten you if some are still used ingame or not...

Mcsnake85 · Jan 20, 2011, 11:42 AM // 11:42

Quote:

Of course, ideally, wintergreen weapons should be subject to this as well.

I dont have Wintergreen Weapons, but "fix" on them is not necessary because you can still find weapon with no attribute with the same damage or closer to wintergreen weapon damage, like this one :
http://img502.imageshack.us/i/immaginekr.png/

So with luck you can find weapons with the same stats of wintergreen ones but with different skins.

superraptors · Jan 20, 2011, 11:43 AM // 11:43

basically all unconditionals are with the pvers, who gives a shit srsly

even if a pvp player got a hold of one, it would be 1 in a 1000, and finally who wants to use some crappy tyrian skinned weapon

novawhiz · Jan 20, 2011, 11:44 AM // 11:44

They should have removed them but they should have done it 5 years ago.

If they removed it now, it would be pointless and just piss off some rare collectors.

MithranArkanere · Jan 20, 2011, 01:38 PM // 13:38

I hope the system altogether, upgrading all of them to the current system.

If it can't be replicated with the PvP item creation panel, either the PvP item creation panel should be updated, or the drops should be fixed.
And since we can't have properties without downsides when all the other versions of that property have downsides, the unconditionals must go.

Now... being able to do so... that's a different story...

chessyang · Jan 20, 2011, 03:20 PM // 15:20

*Start of sarcasm*

Yeah all the top Guilds are running these unconditional swords/bows/hammers! it must be the reason why they are top in PVP. Fix NOW!

*end of sarcasm*

who cares, on that link from Artaban gave most are

1) customized
2) owner has quite GW
3) a unicorn (yet to been seen)

To the OP add the HoD to your list. This white +5 energy sword is so tacky! a "long" short sword? This old school "common white" item is so unbalanced! Should fix it Asap!

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Denravi_Sword

also add the rare Monk Grim Cesta variation that is floating around. With healing prayers? Unbalanced! That owner and his 55hp is crashing the economy.

FengShuiDove · Jan 20, 2011, 03:38 PM // 15:38

A roll of the critical hit dice is more influential than an unconditional modifier. Personally even though I'll never own one I enjoy the novelty of such items existing, particularly when they don't negatively affect balance even a little.

A high end GvG Warrior isn't going to save his team with 15% damage while he's under 50% health. If he's there, he's canceled Frenzy which robs from DPS anyway. And as Baphomet said, it isn't often that this would even be useful.

Also consider that if this was really such an issue, everyone would be bringing 20v50 modded weapons for this situation.

Kunder · Jan 20, 2011, 03:45 PM // 15:45

If someone wants to get their panties in a knot over PvP imbalance, how about the Chimeric Prism?

+5 energy shield for warriors
+8 energy shield for monks
+10 armor +5 energy shield for Rangers requiring Expertise

Compare these real advantages to +1-2 damage on a character that, if they don't kite away, is going to be dead in 5s anyway. Clearly Anet isn't going to remove these weapons, and getting an unconditional weapon at this point is far harder than simply being any old shmuck that preordered the game.

chessyang · Jan 20, 2011, 04:22 PM // 16:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunder

Clearly Anet isn't going to remove these weapons, and getting an unconditional weapon at this point is far harder than simply being any old shmuck that pre-ordered the game.

Yeah what where they thinking as a pre-sale item! give all the people who pre-orderoed the game this nice +5 shield! why give the fans of the game this unbalanced item! Fix or i want my $10 (or euros) back!

QQ